Your Podcast Grows Faster When You Know Your Why with Jordan Blair

Welcome And Meet Jordan Blair

My guest today is Jordan Blair, podcast producer at Budsprout and co-host at Budcast. She has been podcasting for over seven years and has produced multiple shows helping indie creators navigate the real challenges of podcasting from consistency and engagement to monetization that actually feels doable. So welcome, Jordan. Lovely to have you here.

I'm so excited, Carol. I've been looking forward to this all week.

Fantastic. Well, welcome to our listeners. Welcome to Connect Inspire Create. I love to use this space to explore meaningful conversations about life, work, creativity, and the ways we can grow. So let's just slow down the conversation just enough to notice what inspires us and how those insights can help shape what we create in our lives. I am Carol Clegg, your host, a gentle accountability and mindset coach. And I invite my guests from around the world to come and share insights on how they live, think, and navigate the wonderful challenges of just being a human in our world. And I have to share that personally I have used Bone Sprout since launching this podcast, which is over six years ago, and I've shared that with Jordan and I've never changed. So I'm super excited to dig into all the things that are behind Bone Sprout with you, Jordan, and just to motivate people that are stuck on their podcast or wanting to start.

Creativity Away From Screens

Before we jump in, I'm going to ask you something just a little personal. Okay. If we were sitting over coffee and I had to ask you what lights you up outside of work, what comes to mind first?

Oh my goodness. I think creating things with my hands. And that can be anything. That can be repainting the bathroom. That can be doing some like woodworking, or maybe I'm like learning plumbing around the house. Those are all house ideas. I've just been doing a lot of stuff around the house lately. So that's what's coming to mind. But I have behind me, your audio listeners won't know this, but behind me, I have a bunch of booknooks, which are those little like they remind me of like dioramas I did in elementary school. And they're just like little tiny scenes. And then you put them on your bookshelf. And there's just such creativity in that. And I love just doing things with my hands and kind of unplugging my brain because I live on screens all the time. Right. My work is on a screen. I'm talking into a microphone all day. I'm editing my computer all day. And then to wind down, I sit down and I turn on my TV until I like fall asleep. Right. And so sometimes I just really need a break from screens. And it gives me such joy to do things with my hands. And I've done so many different things, like mosaics, paintings, like I'm very creative. And I just I have to do stuff by hands sometimes and just get away from the screens.

I love that. And it's so important what you share. And a lot of people will sometimes go, I'm not creative, but being creative has so many outlets. And I actually have that on my trailer board that I when I start up my day, it's like set aside before I even start anything. Let's do 30 minutes of something creative for myself. I love that because it just kind of, as you say, we're in our heads all the time. We're thinking too many thoughts. And then if we're on our screens as well, there is we need that space. And we all have it in us. There's a little creative, whatever it might be, somebody else might paint better than you, but we all have that ability and it's something to explore. It's definitely, yeah. So thank you for sharing that. That was a good idea.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that even problem solving, you know, if you're not, if you don't consider yourself a creative person, I think problem solving is very creative. And so, yeah, if you're trying to like fix something that's broken, like that can be creative and it's something you're creating something that you're proud of. Right. You fix that, like that's creative.

Putting something together that never comes with instructions.

Or or you can't read them. Yeah, yeah, just fathom it out. I love that.

The Real Reason Podcasts Succeed

Oh, well, let's switch to the important topic of podcasting. And I guess an important, maybe this is too big a question, but I'm sure there's some nuggets that you could share underneath this. What actually makes a podcast work?

Oh, wow, that is a loaded question. I think what actually makes a podcast work, if we were to just break it down completely into the the main heart of the podcast, like what really made it take off, I think it's going to be your why. Why are you podcasting? And just be like laser focused on that, having intentionality behind your podcast planning, who you invite to be on your podcast, where you are marketing your podcast, who are you trying to talk to, who are you trying to target, and where are you spending your time and energy and passion in that podcast, those are the things that make a podcast work. Like if you just break it down to the bare skeletons, having purpose and passion and intentionality behind your podcast is going to be a huge foundation for you.

But and I love that. And the why, I guess asking, really sitting and going deep with that question to help you sustain you, because well, we'll come to that, you know, consistency without burnout. But those, as you're saying, breaking those down are what's going to keep you going. Yes, exactly. So from your experience, what makes a podcast one that listeners want to come back to?

How Listeners Keep Coming Back

There's a few different things, I think. So obviously, audio quality, it it helps. It's not the most important thing, but in this day and age, there's so many wonderful programs that even if you're just recording on your laptop audio or in your like little Apple headphones or on your on your cell phone like voicemail tool, there's so many incredible like algorithmic audio softwares that will just fix it for you. So, for example, like on Buzz Sprout, we have an add-on called Magic Mastering. And I use it, love it. I use it too. And you know what? I'm a professional, I'm a professional podcaster. Like, like audio engineering is my job. And I still use magic mastering because it's so good and it works. It's it's just easy and it like auto-levels your audio and it like makes it just sound nice and clean and it takes out noise in the background. So, you know, the thing is, is I live downtown. And so I'm I'm so happy that you have Magic Mastering because I live right next to the fire station and the police station. Oh my goodness. And CrossFit Gym is next door to me. And you know what? Sometimes they're noisy and it gets picked up a little bit in my microphone. But having these audio cleanup softwares like that, it just cleans it up and you'd never know. You'd absolutely never know that you were recording sitting in your closet or you're, you know, under your covers and things like that. And so I think that it used to be a huge barrier to entry for podcasters or potential podcasters, rather. It used to be a huge barrier to entry because you're a little intimidated by the software, you're intimidated by the equipment. And nowadays you have everything you need to start a podcast in your pocket. Right. And it will sound just as good as if you were in a studio. And so I do think that something that keeps listeners around is going to be good quality audio. And all that means is that it's not distracting, it's it's just like cleaned up enough to where it's it's easy to listen to and it's not harsh on people's ears. I also think that having a really clear, I'm I'm just gonna circle back to this, a really clear why is going to keep people coming back. Because if you have a podcast where you're not exactly clear on what the podcast is, what your listeners are going to get from it, anything like that, they might listen to an episode and be like, oh my gosh, this is right up my alley. It feels like they're talking to me. This is perfect for me. And then they come back the next episode and they're like, This is a completely different topic. Yeah, what happened? This isn't about gardening. Why are you talking about like road planning? This doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And so I think that just being like really focused on making sure that listeners know exactly what they're gonna get from you every single time. So that's that consistency again. Those kind of things can help people to build a relationship with your podcast and keep coming back. And honestly, that's another thing is building a relationship. The hot word of 2025 was parasocial. We all heard it, parasocial relationships, and it's this phenomenon that has just been going in overdrive, especially with the boom of podcasts, because podcasting is so intimate. You're in someone's ear. It's like you're talking to them on the phone, and it's just it gives you this like warm feeling like you're you're going to visit your friend for brunch every week, and you're like, oh, I can't wait to like see my friend. And so you you listen to them every single time. And one of the things that is so beneficial in taking your listeners from like casual listeners into super fans is to actually engage with them, talk to them, to have have a way for them to reach out to you, whether it be like your email or on BuzzBreat, we have fan mail or a website form that they can write in on, or or some sort of like voicemail feature, anything like that. And if you actually acknowledge them and they're not just talking at a wall, it will make them super fans and they're going to be advocates for your podcast and they're going to share it with everybody and they'll be like, Oh, I listened to the most wonderful episode today, and I thought of you, and you know, you should listen to this, and that kind of stuff really gives you momentum. And so I think those three things are huge, you know, just making sure that the sound is good, you know exactly why you're podcasting, and your listeners also know why you're doing it and why they should come back, and then also engaging with them and building that relationship with your

Fan Mail That Builds Superfans

listeners.

And I think often people don't think you can build that relationship, but that gives me a chance because you just shared with me about fan mail. So tell us more about the feature. This is a new feature, and I'm looking forward to exploring it myself.

I this is we have so many great features on Buzz Sprout, but this one is my guilty pleasure feature that if I talk to anybody, whether it be at like a conference or whatever, and they've never heard of fan mail, I go, You haven't heard of fan mail. This is the best thing ever. Let me show you how to do it. And it's just included in your Buzz Sprout plan. It's just this fun thing that we experimented with and kind of like perfected. And what it is, is you just toggle it on, and when you turn it on, your listeners can send you fan mail. And what fan mail is, is they'll send you a message, it'll open up in their text messaging app because a lot of people will listen on their phones, and we will put a link in every single episode description that you can customize. So it says send us fan mail. You can actually customize it. So, for example, I have a bedtime story podcast, and one of my favorite things to do is to ask listeners for story suggestions because when your listeners are content planning, that's great. It's less work for you, and you know that they will like what you're making. And so I have text me a story suggestion. And so they send in, like I use fan mail and they'll send it in, and they'll send like nice things like, Oh, I love this podcast so much. But then they also will send me ideas for future episodes and it makes my life so much easier. And they can also send voicemails, and it's just it's so fantastic because you can use it either just to connect with your listeners, you know, maybe if they have a question, they can like text that into you or send you a voicemail and you can actually play that voicemail clip on your podcast, or you can do a bonus episode full of like voicemail clips and things like that. And like I said, all this is just included in your Buzzsprout plan. And so it's it's not extra, it's just it's just a bonus kind of thing. And it is my favorite, especially if you have the Buzzsprout mobile app, because it's I feel like there's so much noise all the time. And with BuzzSprout's mobile app, we never, ever, ever send you notifications. Carol, you know this because you have the app. We I do. Yeah, you you basically never get notifications from Buzz Sprout. And so it's so nice because I know for a fact it's like a Pavlovian kind of thing now, where I know for a fact if I see a Buzz Sprout notification and it's not like notifying me that my episode's done processing or something like that, like I know it's fan mail and it makes me so happy to just click that and open it and get to read what people say. But yeah, it's it's such a cool tool.

I love watching these tools unfold because I say I've been with you since I've started my my podcast, which was five years. It's actually six years, but five years with yeah, once we moved off, you know, we just started doing it with Facebook Live and then moved into so it's been an interesting journey, but Boseproud has supported me all the way, and it's just such an easy tool, it's so easy to upload, and then your your whole there's just so many features that have been added. So, yes, I'm a fan, a huge fan, and it makes my life so much easier as a podcaster. So there's like no reason to look for other tools and look for other things. So I love hearing that absolute fan here.

Consistency Without Burning Out

But changing now to a little bit, and this is something that I've hit along the way, is consistency without burnout. And you know, one of the things I have learned on this journey is to give myself permission within my podcast, although I've kept it Connect, Inspire, Create, but I've had seasons, and there've been seasons where I knew I had to take a break or change the rhythm or I was gonna let it go and I didn't want to do that. So for somebody who is struggling with consistency or feeling burnt out, how could they approach their podcasting in a more sustainable way?

You know what's interesting about that is I'm currently in a season where I just it just feels like everything's crazy right now, and I have so many podcasts that I'm juggling, and one of them is not like I've been doing it for I don't know, six years or so. And I'm to a point where I'm just like, there's so many episodes, like I haven't taken a break. It's been a really long time, and I'm just gonna like step back and take a breather. And I think giving yourself permission to take a break is great. Listeners are not going to like go out of their way to unsubscribe, especially if you make an announcement to them. That is such a benefit. And and one of the things that I love to do, this is another feature that we have that's just included in Buzz Sprout. It's called dynamic content. Have you used this, Carol? No. Okay, so dynamic content. This is another really great feature that some people don't always know about. Okay and and they assume that it's ads, it's not ads, it doesn't have to be ads. You could do ads in dynamic content. But what you do is you record a clip or you record an announcement or a call to action. And what you do is you upload it in the dynamic content page, and then you can insert that announcement across all your back episodes. You can only select certain episodes that you want to be in, but it's really great for timely stuff that you don't want to live there forever. And so if you record a message and you say, hey everyone, like I'm I'm so thankful that you're back for another episode, but I'm just taking a quick break and I will be back in two months. Try to make sure that they understand you're coming back in like a certain amount of time. Right. So it's really good to like give them a date, like I'll see you February 1st or something like that. And then you just upload that. And then what it does is it puts that message across all the episodes that you want it to be in, and you can put it as a pre-roll. So they they'll click to listen to an episode, and it's the first thing that they hear, you know, they just hear your voice and you're like, hey, just a quick announcement, and I'll be back. And then when your break is done, you can just take it out of all your episodes and it's like it was never there. And so people in the future will never know that you took a break unless they were to like look at your published dates. So that's definitely a big thing that I think I think that's the easiest thing to do is just let your listeners know, hey guys, your girl's tired. Yeah, I gotta take a break. Like, right. I'll see you in two months. Bye. I think just letting people know that is so good. And then also you can batch. I kind of personally don't really like batching because to me, it feels like when you're about to take a vacation and you have to work really hard to be able to earn that time to take the vacation. Like it's like you're working like double time and then you're super burned out by the time your vacation comes up. We've all done this, right? And it is awful, it's exhausting, and it makes you dread that vacation time. So I don't personally love batching episodes, but there's some people that are go-getters and they're like, yeah, I'm just gonna like lock myself in my bedroom for like five hours and crank out 10 episodes and then take the year off, you know, which that's fine too. But that's not me. Another thing that I've done in the past that worked really well, and I love this because I really feel like with podcasting, community is so much better than competition. Like podcasting just feels like a really tight community, and it's it's so different than so many other mediums because it's it's not that competitive. It feels very like collaborative, and like I definitely believe that like the rising tides raise all boats. And one of the things that I love to do when I'm taking a break is I will go on Instagram or through email or something like that. I will find other podcasts that are very similar to mine. So for a bedtime story podcast, I would go into like Apple Podcasts and I would look for other bedtime story podcasts that are very similar to mine, you know, maybe they're for adults. Um, I found a really cool, like dark Slavic mythology one. And I was like, that's cool. That sounds like something I would listen to. And I listened to it and it's amazing. And I reached out to her and I said, Hey, I'm actually going on a break for like three months and I want to feature other podcasts while I'm on break. Would you be down to do that? And honestly, like every single time they go, yes, absolutely. And then they send me an MP3 file of their favorite episode. Yeah. And then what I do this is so great, and it's awesome because you make friends, it's the best. So then what I do is I will record like a quick intro so that my listeners know, hey, this is Jordan check. Yeah, this is this is Jordan checking in. Just let you know, I handpick this. I think you're gonna love it. And so I want you to follow the show. Like, but here's their episode, and make sure you go follow them and then it'll play out. And it's been really awesome because I would have people like check in with me a few months later and they'd be like, wow, I got like a huge bump in followers after this. So thank you so much. And it's just awesome. And and it's not like a promo swap because I'm not asking them to promote my podcast. I'm just saying, hey, will you do me a solid and let me play one of your episodes on my show? And I just let them know. And I do like a promo on social media, and it's great because I don't have to do a full episode, I just do a 30-second intro and just say, Hey, you guys would love this because I love this and I want you to listen to it and I'll see you later.

You know, it's such a golden nugget because I just kind of went into draft mode. Yeah, you know, and it's so easy to do that. You've given yourself permission to take the break, but what a beautiful way to build community. And there is a specialness within the podcast community without a dot, with other and we're sharing conversations, so this it isn't in this competitive sort of marketing mode, but it's we're learning from each other, and then in turn, we're putting that out to let other people be inspired and learn and and do things. So I love that of reaching out to somebody who's got a similar tone, a similar vibe to what you're doing, and and doing that. Yeah, so that that's beautiful.

Monetization That Feels Doable

So I have we're talking now about you've shared with me getting sort of engagement and feedback, but now let's talk about monetization without the pressure, which I think is a block for for many podcasters, because often the belief is that you need to have a huge download to make money, and that there are some different ideas. So I know one of the things you had mentioned was a sponsorship pitch that can feel less salesy. But what are some other ways that monetization or the creators can just start to think, okay, I'm gonna bring this in at some stage. Where do I take this?

Yes, I I love talking about podcast monetization. It is just like one of my favorite things in the world because I feel like there's so much misunderstanding around it and like misconceptions around it. Typically, what happens is when people say, you know, I want to start monetizing my podcast, they're not. Saying I want to like quit my job and and you know become the next Joe Rogan or whatever. They're they're really not saying that. It's it's independent podcasters that are going, hey, like I have this hobby that I really love, but boy, it would be nice if my hobby paid for itself. We all love that. Right. So I equate it to you know being really into quilting, and then you eventually say, you know what, I've got all these quilts, I might go down to the farmer's market and get rid of some of them on Saturday, and then you know, I can use that money to then make some more, exactly. And so I I think it's very similar to that. So when you're talking about podcast modernization in the independent podcaster sense, it's really just that, it's just that, you know, it's it's just like supporting your hobby and which is great. If it does become a side hustle or it does become your job like mine did, like that's cool too. But it's not that's not always typical. And really, especially if you have a very strong niche, like small niche podcast, it's it's not out of the realm of possibility that you can hit everyone in your target audience and there's only gonna be 50 people showing up every week, but you're you're reaching all the people that you want to reach. And so one of the things I hear quite often is that you monetize an audience, you don't monetize a podcast. And what this really means is that if you have an audience of uh listeners that just love your podcast and they show up week after week, and you know, they've been listening for years, they're the people that are sending you fan mail messages, and these are the super fans that I've talked about, you know, they comment on all your posts on social media and they let you know what a great episode you just did. Like those are the types of people that are willing to support your podcast because they get value out of it. And that's another thing that I really want to talk about is that a lot of podcasters feel very awkward asking for money. It's it's kind of weird to ask for money. Like it's just, it just is. It doesn't feel good. But what's so cool about your podcast is that you are for free putting value out into the world and you're creating content that people are returning to over and over again. And like you're creating value, and so it's totally fine to let your listeners know, hey, I enabled listener support and listener support. So on Bus Brought, there's like ads, support, and subscriptions. And I'm gonna quickly go through this. So ads is like the programmatic, like commercial ads. I think that they don't actually, I think I think ads is one of the least profitable ways to make money from a podcast because usually you make like pennies on the dollar for like the download, and you have to get like 20,000 downloads to even like make money on that, right? And and most people don't get that many downloads. Subscriptions are great, but typically you have to create extra content, so it's extra work and you have to maintain that subscription. I love listener support because people can donate or pledge money to your podcast for the work that you're already doing. You're already creating value, they're already in love with your product, they're already like just clamoring for the next episode and they can't wait for the Friday morning commute because they know you're gonna be there. Like that is the best. And so it's really awesome to just tell your listeners, you know, at the beginning of the episode or whatever, just say, like, hey, if you get value from this podcast, I actually just turned on listener support, or I just added a buy me a coffee, or I just gonna ask you about buy me a coffee, right? Buy me a coffee is another one. Paypal.me is a really great one because basically everyone has PayPal. And so you can put your links for that kind of stuff in and just say, like, hey, if you just want to like support the show and help me to, you know, upgrade my equipment, you know, be transparent about the stuff that you're gonna do. Hey, my Squarespace subscription costs me like $24 a month and it's so expensive. Will you guys, you know, if you support this, it helps me to create more things and I can reach more people. Yeah, all that stuff. And then when you do upgrade your your equipment, you know, for example, I remember when I got when I first upgraded my microphone from like a $70 one to like a $200 one, and I told them all I was like, hey, thanks for all for supporting. I just got like the best new microphone. It's gonna sound so good now. Thank you. And they love that, and it just it just makes your listeners feel good, you feel good, and it's like I said, it's a little awkward to ask people for money, but I I'll tell you what, when you get that email notification that someone just subscribed or someone sent you a donation, it gets a lot less awkward. You go, okay, that was great. I want to ask every episode now.

That wasn't that difficult. I think that's that's wonderful. Yeah. And when you talk about sponsorship, would you does that kind of where does that fit into the soul?

Sponsorship Pitches Without The Cringe

Sponsorships. I think that sponsorships that they're so much work. I've I've done a million sponsors. I've been sponsored by BetterHelp. They they had me in like a contract for years. I've been sponsored with like HelloFresh and like all the subscription companies and like Evite and all this different stuff. And it's so funny because my listener support and subscriptions, I made more money off of those consistently than I did with sponsorships. And sponsorships are so difficult, it's so much work. You're you're I would spend like my weekends and I would send a pitch email and I would just be like, Hey, I love this product. You know, my kids have been like, for example, if I were to do like a kid's subscription box, I would just write them and be like, Hey, I'm Jordan. I host Dreamful Bedtime Stories. And let me tell you, my kid has been obsessed with your boxes. We just did this project and it was so much fun. I have a ton of listeners that are in this age group, and I know that they would also love this. Like, do you want to team up? And, you know, I'll I'll talk about the product for a couple episodes and then in exchange, let me know, and we'll do this. You know, I typically charge about this much, and here's how many downloads I get. And you just make it very casual because we have all gotten those emails, like those cold emails.

Pitchy pitchy.

Yeah, and they're good morrow to you, sir. I inquire as to the Bubba Bot. And it's just like no one talks like this. Like, who says good morrow to you, sir? That is not, that's a bot, that's not a person. And so whenever I send these pitches to even the big companies, I always remember there is a human being on the other side. And maybe they're having an off day. Maybe they're maybe their tire went flat this morning, maybe they have gone through a million emails and they're so tired of seeing the same stuff over and over again. And so I just make it as friendly as humanly possible. I butter them up. I love your service, product, whatever, for this reason. And here's my story about that in like one or two sentences. I'm keeping it short and sweet and punchy, and then I just say, like, hey, I would love to partner with you. And I've had so much luck with those, but at the same time, like you're still sending a bunch of those pitches to be able, yeah.

I mean, you know, if we come with a 5% close rate, how much work is that?

Exactly. And all of them have to be heartfelt, all of them have to be unique. You know, if you really want to like reel them in, you gotta make sure that it is like you mean it from the bottom of your heart, you love this thing, and doing that over and over and over again gets really exhausting. Yeah, it is so much work.

I have to admit, from a consumer point of view, I will often fast forward over that part when I'm listening to a podcast.

Yes, yeah, especially if they're all like bundled together. And the other thing about sponsorships, you know, if we're talking about like loving your craft and not burning out, sponsorships I think are the easiest way to burn out. So, like I said, I was I was contracted by BetterHelp for a couple years, which means I never got to miss an episode because they bought the specific date that that episode is coming out and I cannot miss it. So if I if my husband's appendix has to come out, I still gotta get on that microphone and record that episode because I can't like miss that deadline that they're paying. Yeah. And what's so great is when you have listener subscriptions and support. So, as I said at the top of the episode, I too am in one of those periods where like life is crazy and I just need a break, I need a breather. And it's so awesome because I tell them that and they're like, Cool, we'll see you when you get back. And then they're still subscribed, and so I'm still getting that money. But if you miss a sponsorship or an ad read, you're not getting that money, you don't get paid for that.

And I love what you shared there as well about the fact that people don't generally unsubscribe when you take a break. Yeah, I mean, I you know, I don't even think of that, and I do go back to some part, and even so, if you do take a break, there's some episodes you haven't listened to them all. And so if you've enjoyed it as an opportunity to go back to some other ones that you you didn't hear.

Or if you yeah, or if you have um a subscription and you offer bonus episodes, maybe you're on a break and they've already binged all of your free episodes and they go, you know what, I love this so much. I'm actually just gonna subscribe for a couple months and I'm just gonna listen to all of her other stuff. Right to take

Buzzsprout Picks And Closing Invite

it back.

Well, Jordan, this has been wonderful, very inspiring, even just for me as a podcast host. So I cannot wait to jump onto my BuzzSprout app and check out what the features that you've shared. Yeah, we'll make sure to pop into our show notes, yeah, where to find BuzzSprout's official podcasting site. I've got BuzzCast at Buzzsprout.com.

Yeah, that's where that's our podcast about podcasting. And so I co-host that with the the co-founder of BuzzSprout and the head of marketing at Buzzsprout, and we have a real good time. I don't know if you've listened, but you should listen. It is so much fun, and which you'd think a podcast about podcasting would not be fun, but it's it's fun.

Wonderful. Yeah, so I'll pop that in. And of course, for people who are listening to check out Buzz Sprout. If you're a podcast, wannabe, newbie, wanting to start out, I 100% recommend checking out all the features and everything that's there. So thank you. Thank you. So thanks to those who've been listening to us here on Connect Inspire Create. And if you have been inspired by this conversation, or you can think of somebody, a fellow podcaster who might want to listen, I invite you to share it with them. And I invite you to connect with me. You'll find me on LinkedIn at Carol Clegg or my website at CarolClegg.com. So until the next time, may your choices bring you ease and flow.