Nov. 14, 2025
Connect Through Words: Marketing with Heart and Strategy with Rachel Allen
Marketing that converts isn’t about louder posts or cut-and-paste avatars. It’s about words that work like assets—clear, human, and grounded in what buyers actually care about. We sit down with copywriter and strategist Rachel Allen, whose globe-trotting path from a Hong Kong hustle to a thriving practice shaped a no-nonsense approach to positioning, storytelling, and using AI without losing your voice.
We start by dismantling the half-page “ideal client” myth and replace it with psychographics and lived context—beliefs, pressures, and change moments that drive decisions.
Rachel lays out the four essentials behind every sale
right thing, right person, right time, right way
and explains why you only control a couple of them.
• shifting from demographics to psychographics
• the four rights and why control is limited
• positioning that states what it is and why it matters
• storytelling as a memory and trust tool
• AI as research and drafting support, not a crutch
To connect with Rachel Allen:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelallenwrites/
https://instagram.com/boltfromthebluecopywriting
Website: https://www.boltfromthebluecopywriting.com/
Hello from your host, Carol Clegg – your accountability business coach for women coaches, entrepreneurs and small teams!
As a coach or heart led entrepreneur, you know all the right tools and strategies to support your clients—but when it comes to applying them to yourself, it’s easy to get stuck. You might find it hard to prioritize self-care, stay motivated, or maintain a positive mindset, especially when juggling the demands of your business. That’s where I come in.
I love helping women reconnect with their own practices. Together, we’ll explore what’s getting in the way, reignite your motivation, and put the right tools in place to support your well-being.
Visit carolclegg.com for more details.
BOOK your ✅ 30-minute complimentary exploration call HERE
Let’s connect on LinkedIn and Instagram, or join my LinkedIn Group Flourish: A Community for Women Business Owners
I am your host Carol Clegg. As a small business coach, I partner with women solopreneurs in midlife, to confidently step out of overwhelm and create a fresh path to success through tailored accountability and mindset coaching, integrated with the powerful Positive Intelligence program. Struggling with procrastination, finding balance in your business and personal life, and cultivating a positive mindset?
Let’s chat!
BOOK your ✅ 30 minute complimentary discovery call
carolclegg.com or book your call here https://bit.ly/discoverycallwithcarol
Chapters
00:00 - Kill The Flimsy Client Avatar
00:49 - Meet Rochelle: Words That Make Money
02:32 - Hong Kong Leap And Freelance Breakthrough
04:21 - Life Abroad And Returning To Tennessee
05:20 - What “Make Words Make Money” Means
06:42 - Why 99% Of Advice Fails
08:17 - Ditch Demographics For Psychographics
10:13 - Positioning 101: The Missing Ingredient
12:38 - Storytelling That Sticks And Sells
15:05 - AI Anxiety And The Pace Of Change
17:16 - Relationship Marketing Over Pushiness
18:48 - Analog Tactics For High-Touch Offers
20:05 - Everyone Is Spam Until Proven Otherwise
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.360
Oh, you know, a couple years ago, I got very up on my soapbox about this, and I wrote a little ebook called Kill Your Client Avatar.
00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:15.839
And I was so frustrated seeing clients who would come to me and they would say, Here's my client avatar, and it's half a page.
00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:17.760
And I'm like, Okay, friends.
00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:25.679
Client avatars, when they were created by, you know, marketing teams back in, let's say, 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s, they are the size of phone books.
00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:26.640
They're huge.
00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:32.640
They know everything about whoever's buying the detergent or the Coca-Cola or whatever.
00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:40.399
And so when you come to me when you're like, my person is a woman and she's 35 to 55 and she lives in the suburbs and she likes fruity pebbles for breakfast.
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:42.240
And I'm like, that tells me nothing.
00:00:49.600 --> 00:01:04.959
You are listening to Connect, Inspire, Create, a space for you to gather fresh ideas, build momentum, and discover how growth in business and your personal life can feel lighter with clarity and connection.
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:12.719
I am Carol Clegg, your host, and I am ready to get started with my wonderful guest, Rochelle Allen.
00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:15.200
So I am joined by Rochelle today.
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:29.040
I've I love this little introduction that kind of came to me from Podmatch, but a fast-thinking, deeply nerdy marketer who spent nearly two decades helping people make words make money.
00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:42.560
And Rochelle has written for brands big and small across 21 countries, blending data-driven strategy with a refreshing human touch, which is what we are all wanting to hear.
00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:52.480
And what I love about your story is how it all began, stranded in Hong Kong with just a few dollars and no plan except to figure it out.
00:01:52.719 --> 00:02:04.640
And that led you to building a thriving copywriting business and a philosophy, and this part's important, that turns marketing into something relational and not robotic.
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:07.680
So I'm glad you're listening to us today.
00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:09.120
Welcome, Rochelle.
00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:11.039
Thank you so much for having me.
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:26.080
I'm looking forward to this conversation because we are going to explore why so much marketing advice misses the mark, how to position yourself without sounding salesy, and what's really behind our fear of AI.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:31.199
So I know that you are gonna bring some great insight and humor, some light bulb moments.
00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:36.080
And so let's start off with the journey, Hong Kong.
00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.120
I'm thinking what, maybe 17 years ago.
00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:39.759
Yeah.
00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.599
Tell us a little, give us a little insight into that.
00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:53.199
Well, I had gone to school for journalism and I had graduated into the 2008 recession, and of course, no one was hiring anyone then.
00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:58.080
And the only job I could get was unpacking boxes at Old Navy on the 5 a.m.
00:02:58.240 --> 00:02:58.879
shift.
00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:04.159
And while that's certainly, you know, a worthy pursuit, it wasn't what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.
00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:10.080
So in my 22-year-old brain, I was like, okay, what's the furthest I can get away from Tennessee?
00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:11.840
And the answer was Hong Kong.
00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.080
So I bought a plane ticket and I left.
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:19.360
But I didn't think about getting a work visa or making a plan before that because, you know, 22.
00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.719
And when I landed there, I was like, well, I have to make rent.
00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:25.759
And so I start Googling like how to make money online.
00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:29.360
And shockingly, I found this freelance gig that popped up.
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:34.319
And I was absolutely sure it was a scam because I couldn't believe anybody would ever pay me to write.
00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:37.039
But I was like, you know, what's the worst, you know, case scenario?
00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.439
I'll take it, I'll lose a couple hours of my life, whatever.
00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:44.319
So I took it and they actually paid me, and I was absolutely hooked.
00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.199
And how long did you stay in Hong Kong for?
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:48.879
About two years, I'll told them.
00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:49.759
All right.
00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.000
And then where did that take you to next?
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:58.240
Because you talk about so many countries, which is I am a travel lover and I've lived in a lot of different places.
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.319
And Rochelle and I, before we would started the show, I asked her.
00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:04.639
I for some reason thought she was in Australia.
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.840
And you said that's one of the few countries you haven't been to.
00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:09.759
So there's gotta be a host of others.
00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:11.439
Have you been to South Africa?
00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:14.159
Uh no, that's also on my list.
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.079
But I do have a lot of friends there.
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.800
Yeah, but yeah, give me a couple of the other countries that you lived and worked.
00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:32.079
Well, I actually moved about every six months throughout my 20s, and so mostly across Europe, but England, Spain, Bulgaria actually really enjoyed Hungary, would move there again in a second.
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:39.920
The classics, Italy, Germany, you know, all of those kind of standard places, and then a bit around South America as well, but mostly Europe.
00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:40.959
I love that.
00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:47.120
And then you're I I you started off by saying you wanted the place furthest away from Tennessee, and now you're back in Tennessee.
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:47.920
Yeah.
00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:54.399
I so after all of this moving around, I moved to Washington, DC to live with a friend for a while.
00:04:54.560 --> 00:05:00.639
And then after that, you know, we had both grown up in the in the area around here, and we kind of wanted to be back in the area.
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:05.120
So I moved back down here and ended up really in falling back in love with it.
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.399
Oh, that and it's funny how sometimes we just need to do that.
00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:17.040
Um we need to go and spread our wings and explore something else and then come back with so much richness and so much experience.
00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.000
Um, yeah, that's that's wonderful.
00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:25.360
Well, I know that you have said, you know, make words make money.
00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:27.040
Let's just jump in.
00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.319
What does that mean for us in 2025?
00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:32.160
Although we're coming to the end of it.
00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:33.759
Marketing landscape.
00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:35.519
Make words make money.
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:39.120
Well, I mean, that's ultimately what marketing is about, right?
00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:52.560
So, as someone who's been a writer in various forms throughout my entire life, I really wanted to get clear in my tagline of like when I'm doing marketing, it is specifically to use the art of words to make money, to spread influence.
00:05:52.720 --> 00:06:00.319
You know, I often say words are the technology by which ideas and influence spread, but in marketing specifically, it's because you want people to buy something.
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:07.680
And then, of course, in other formats, right, you know, when I write memoir or journalism or whatever else I'm doing, there's a different end goal.
00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:14.160
But the end goal in marketing always has to be you need these words to perform as a business asset for you.
00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:16.000
Yeah.
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:21.439
And I know you've also said, you know, it's marketing, is there are so many elements that come into this.
00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:23.360
Marketing lights my fire.
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:31.120
I think from in my early 20s, that's kind of the direction I thought I would take back in South Africa and and never did.
00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:32.720
But I'm I never stopped learning.
00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:39.040
And even as a coach, I still say to people, if you talk to me about marketing, it's like my eyes light up.
00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:40.160
I love that.
00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:47.199
So I I love so that's why I'm so excited to share some of these, you know, give here your golden nuggets and some advice.
00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:52.879
You said 99% of marketing advice sets people up to fail.
00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:53.680
Right.
00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:55.839
Can you tell me more about that?
00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:56.560
Yeah.
00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:01.279
Well, I as you have probably been able to glean, I'm a I'm a big data nerd about everything.
00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:05.360
I love researching, I love pulling together theories and systems for things.
00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:18.240
So a couple years ago, I was really looking back on my successes in marketing and other successful campaigns, and I realized that for a sale to happen, you have to have the same four elements in place.
00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:25.279
So you have to get the right thing in front of the right person at the right time and in the right way.
00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:30.079
And the problem is you can only control like probably two of those max.
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:31.279
Right.
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.439
Marketing advice is predicated as though you can control all four.
00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:50.160
And then, of course, when you can't control the flow of time, it's like you didn't want it hard enough, you didn't hustle enough, you didn't follow my system, which the truth is, it's just you you you're not omnipotent, you can't control the world.
00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:51.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:59.680
And the timing, I mean, I absolutely it's you know, how do you know when somebody's gonna open up something, read something, click on something, you don't control that.
00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:06.240
All the paid advertising and everything else promises you that direct you in that way.
00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:15.120
I know I'd love to ask you a little bit more about you had this line that says, You don't have a client avatar, but you have an imaginary friend.
00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:16.959
So walk us through that one.
00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:24.560
Oh, you know, a couple years ago, I got very up on my soapbox about this, and I wrote a little e-book called Kill Your Client Avatar.
00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:33.039
And I was so frustrated seeing clients who would who would come to me and they would say, Here's my client avatar, and it's half a page.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:42.879
And I'm like, Okay, friends, client avatars, when they were created by, you know, marketing teams back in let's say 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s, they are the size of phone books.
00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:49.840
They're huge, they know everything about whoever's buying the detergent or the Coca-Cola or whatever.
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:57.600
And so when you come to me when you're like, my person is a woman and she's 35 to 55 and she lives in the suburbs and she likes fruity pebbles for breakfast.
00:08:57.679 --> 00:09:01.120
And I'm like, that tells me nothing, nothing about this woman.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:09.519
So that's why I encourage people to get rid of that client avatar and then look for psychographics as well, in lieu of that.
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:15.679
Because we're so we're taught to think like, okay, well, if I know the demographics, then I can make a guess as to what this person wants.
00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:21.600
But as you know, people can have very similar demographics, but totally different life experiences.
00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.919
So there could be so many women like me, you know, I'm things about me.
00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:29.039
I am married, I'm self-employed, I have a cat, right?
00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:31.759
But I have a friend, very similar demographics.
00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:32.799
She also has a kid.
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:35.440
That's completely changed the trajectory of her life.
00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:37.840
Another one is still a digital nomad.
00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:43.360
You know, we all have the same demographics, but the psychographics in our life experience are totally different.
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.360
So different things speak to us.
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:46.080
Absolutely.
00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:54.799
I mean, I think of you traveling and I think of myself traveling, and then, you know, well, how different that is to somebody who doesn't even hold a passport.
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:55.519
Right.
00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:58.720
And could be, you know, the same demographics.
00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:04.320
Yeah, so much more depth to go into that client avatar.
00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:12.799
Um, you'd also talk about positioning 101 and that there's an ingredient that's is missing that often gets ignored.
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:18.320
Yeah, so this is something I teach uh workshops on, and no one ever thinks they need it.
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.480
And then they come to the workshop and they're like, oh, that changed everything.
00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:29.600
So positioning is essentially what something really is and why anybody wants it.
00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:42.399
And that sounds really simple, but then when you ask people of like, you know, what's your positioning for your service, what's your positioning for your product, a lot of times they go, it's but like, uh, you know, like it has like these benefits or it has this whatever.
00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:56.320
And I'm like, no, until I, until you can say what it really is, and like, so like the kind of boring name that anybody would know, and then what it really does for someone, and then explain why they care, there's a hollowness at the center of your marketing.
00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:07.360
And what I've learned over so many years of doing this is that unless you have that positioning statement very clear, people will misunderstand you in ways you could have never imagined.
00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:12.559
It's funny because as you're sharing that, it makes me think of that silly thing with the telephone.
00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:19.519
And when you sit in a circle and you kind of and and how the whole thing can change, and then you've lost the meaning from the beginning.
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:31.360
It's not exactly the same, but it's just as you're saying, if that if you're not positioned properly, you you have no idea as a cli as a consumer what you're getting and what you're gonna get out of it.
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:32.240
Exactly.
00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:46.240
And like the pricing won't make sense, and there may be features that you don't understand, and it's so hard to really think about this because you know why the product is so great or you have the felt sense of why your coaching is so impactful.
00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:52.159
But then when you try to explain it to someone else, you end up using buzzwords like, oh, I empower people to be their best self.
00:11:52.320 --> 00:12:02.960
And what I always ask my lovely coaches is, my darling, has anyone ever woken up in the middle of the night and thought, oh, if only could I become empowered to become my best self?
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:04.720
I am my best self.
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:05.919
Right, right, right.
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:20.159
Yeah, no, that the cliched words and and and the promises that and and that's you know, it comes also when I think of the elevator speech, and that's it, you know, try and you know, condense that into something, but to something meaningful.
00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:20.559
Yeah.
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:21.120
I don't know.
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.240
I I'm just digressing a little bit here, but storytelling.
00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:33.360
How does that because I find I remember things when someone either tells me a story or relates it to a scenario.
00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:47.279
I had somebody tell me the other day something was like a fire and it was burning and the flames, and then the opposite was no air going into that fire, and it was gray, and and you know, and I was like, huh, okay, that I can visualize that.
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:48.639
I it made sense.
00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:49.360
Oh, yeah.
00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:50.320
And that's essential.
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:58.080
I mean, just the way that our brains are wired, humans are wired for storytelling because, as I'm sure many people will have heard of, mirror neurons activate.
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:12.240
So when I'm telling you a story, when I tell you the story of how I moved to Hong Kong and I could describe to you, you know, I'm sitting in the hotel room and I can smell, because I was living in a port, so I can smell the diesel, and I had just gotten a big bag of rice, so my arms were kind of heavy.
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:15.279
Your neurons are firing as though you were there.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.120
And so it's a way to immerse people and to really stand out.
00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:25.440
Because if I tell you, you know, some boring LinkedIn thing about myself, like I'm a marketing strategist and CMO, who cares?
00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:32.799
But if I tell you about how I can, you know, make your words give you an impact in the world, then that's when you're really interested.
00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:34.879
That's yeah, that that's wonderful.
00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:36.240
Yeah, and I totally agree.
00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:42.080
I mean, storytelling is a gift, um, and it does certainly take some practice.
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:48.399
And some people just have it, they can just use those right words and create, but just like you say, words.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:49.120
Right.
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.039
And it's something we all naturally do.
00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:52.720
We tell stories to our friends all the time.
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:58.000
You know, even if you're not like a good storyteller, you can always improve your technique, but you know how to do this.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:59.519
It's a fundamental human thing.
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:00.480
Right, right.
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:05.360
As we're talking about humans, let's switch over briefly to the whole AI thing.
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:05.759
Yeah.
00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:13.840
And you said the marketing apocalypse isn't coming, that AI anxiety is really about the pace of change.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.759
Can you expand on that?
00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:17.120
Absolutely.
00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:27.279
So, about 18 months ago, I had a lot of tech bros telling me I was going to be out of work in a year, and I'm like, guys, I've been through like five internet apocalypses so far.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.639
I see what's happening.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:35.919
So, what what this is and what we see with the past things, so for instance, SEO changes, algorithm changes, GDPR.
00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:40.080
I think it's really an avatar for our uncertainty about the pace of change.
00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:52.000
So, Ray Kurzweil did a has a famous quote talking about how in every decade of the century we're in, we will experience the same amount of change we experienced in the last century.
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:54.480
And that is a huge uptick.
00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:57.120
It's exponential and it's very disconcerting.
00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:00.559
The pace of change is too fast for our brains to keep up with.
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:04.559
So we latch on to something to be like, why do I feel bad all the time?
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.080
Why am I anxious all the time?
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.159
Oh, it's AI coming for my job.
00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:11.200
Or conversely, I'm so anxious all the time.
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.679
Oh, please, robot, tell me what to do.
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.320
So I think that's what it's really about.
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:26.960
Yeah, that trying to find, I mean, if you think about it, you know, the the human-centered, we look at human-centered marketing and AI as a tool.
00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:27.519
Right.
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:29.120
It's so valuable.
00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:30.639
And not as a threat.
00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.679
I mean, it you know, it saves time to be able to put you in other places and do other things.
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:47.279
You know, it it it to me, I mean, I absolutely I love exploring and using as a support and just bringing in other elements that you just don't have the time for.
00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:48.399
Right, exactly.
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:57.759
It's phenomenal for research, it's wonderful for gathering data, it acts as a great marketing intern and it gives you a really great first draft that you can just tear apart.
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:09.200
But I where I see people struggling is they either feel insecure about their own ability, and so they just say, like, oh, whatever the robot says is better, let me just, you know, and of course you don't want that.
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:19.200
Or they just have this sense of like, oh, well, I have to be everywhere all the time, and it doesn't matter what I'm saying or what I'm doing as long as people see my name.
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:20.879
And that doesn't work either.
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:22.320
No, no, no.
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:24.559
I mean, these are relationships to me.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:29.600
Marketing is a relationship that you build over time, it really, really is.
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.960
And you know, the the push in your face and this the salesy stuff.
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:44.799
I mean, for LinkedIn, and I I just I can I can't even be bothered anymore that you haven't even got to know what I do or had a look at anything, and you're already pushing something or asking me to book a call with you.
00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:51.360
And come on, there's a more you wouldn't do that if you were making a friend.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:52.399
Oh, absolutely.
00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.200
And I mean, I love you know, we call it pushy for a reason.
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.679
So I often refer to this as relationship physics.
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:07.039
If I get physically into your space, you lean back, and it's the same thing anyone naturally does like, whoa, like give me some space.
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.440
And so you don't want to be the person on the street like shoving flyers in people's hands.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:16.160
You want to be the person who has the presence that draws people to them.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:17.039
Yeah.
00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.559
Oh, I like that image of yeah, it's sort of shoving and pushing.
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:21.279
Absolutely.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:25.920
So as we as we wrap up, I have two things that I'd love to ask you.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.880
What is one marketing trend that you're seeing right now that really excites you?
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:36.880
I am so excited to see the swing back to non-scalable analog work.
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:42.240
For high-touch offers, that is basically the only thing that's selling them right now.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:50.319
Anything handwritten, anything sent in the actual mail, something people can touch, that is what is making sales.
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:51.279
Wow.
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:54.319
Wow, that's that's something, huh?
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:58.880
So that also brings in design and obviously your copy.
00:17:59.279 --> 00:17:59.599
Right.
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:06.319
Um and somebody has to like be inconvenienced for it, which I think is such a great demonstration of generosity.
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:07.039
Wow.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:08.319
Oh, that's exciting.
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:10.720
And then I know you've got something else you said.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.079
Everybody is spam until they prove otherwise.
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:14.799
Yes.
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:24.720
I tell my clients this because they people, I think it's very natural to go into a marketing conversation and really feel like everyone should listen to you.
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.319
Because, you know, of course, we're all valuable, our voices all matter.
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:34.160
But the problem is we're exposed to upwards of 100,000 words per day.
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.880
And many of those boil down to buy my thing in one way or another.
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:47.119
And so you have to show that you are not spam because we're just sort of auto-tuning people out now for very good reason.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:48.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:55.599
So to be able to sort of have that little light bulb moment and for somebody to stop and pull you in, right?
00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:58.400
Actually, benefit, exactly.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:18:59.440
I suppose.
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.160
Well, Rochelle, this has been absolutely wonderful.
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.680
And I just, yeah, some nuggets that are out there to inspire some people.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:08.960
If anybody wanted to get in touch with you, find out some more.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:15.680
Um I'm guessing you have a couple of courses when you mentioned earlier, that's and obviously to do to yeah, work with you.
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:17.279
Where do they find you?
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.799
Yeah, you can find me at bolt from the blue copywriting.com.
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:29.519
You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, or you can email me at hello at bolt from the blue copywriting.com, and I will email you back like it is the olden times.
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